Transcript: Managing A Media Company During A Pandemic and Coping With Mental Health with Editor In Chief of Bella Magazine, Vanessa Coppes

Transcript: Managing A Media Company During A Pandemic and Coping With Mental Health with Editor In Chief of Bella Magazine, Vanessa Coppes

Welcome to the Holistic Wealth podcast. I’m your host, Kesha Blair wife, mother of three, author of holistic wealth and founder of the Institute on Holistic Wealth. The show will showcase various experts in the key pillars of holistic wealth. Each week we deliver the best information on how to become holistically wealthy and live your best life.

Keisha Blair: Today, we have a very, very special guest with us. We have the CEO and Editor-In-Chief of Bella magazine. Vanessa is an author of Five Steps to Fabulous, Co-founder of ETT women and ETT Women Foundation. Vanessa, it’s so great to have you here and excited to be doing this interview. I’ve been following along on social media and the exciting work coming out from Bella magazine is just awesome.

Vanessa Coppes: Thank you so much for having me. It’s really an honor, and a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Keisha Blair: And so I just want you to start with your journey because your role and position at Bella magazine is, historic, and in the industry at large, you know, in terms of being one of the very few Latina women to head an international magazine that’s international and still, I know you worked at Bella magazine before, and then you acquired it, which is awesome. Can you tell us a bit more about that, that journey and the story of how you actually acquire the magazine?

Vanessa Coppes: So, I mean, backtrack to age 13 is a vision of me writing for a New York City magazine. And this is me living back in the Dominican Republic in the middle of high school, just talking with my best friend about our future. You know, she said she would want to be a lawyer. And I knew in my gut that the first thing I said, well, I’m not going to be living here.

I’m definitely going to be living in New York and I’m going to be writing. Writing has just been something that I’ve done for pretty much a better part of my life. I actually used to be an elementary school language arts teacher and literature teacher in high school and ESL teacher for both adults and children. So writing has just been in my DNA. Both of my parents were professors in college and teachers as well. The writing world, I definitely had a knack for it. When I moved to the States and married my husband, and had my first son, I went through a period of postpartum depression and I launched a business that was a custom made jewelry business.

And through that jewelry business is how I connected to the previous owners of Bella magazine. And I just began to contribute. I was very much connected to giving back to my community is just kind of how I’ve always lived my life. So, it was kind of like my foot into officially contributing to the print issue simultaneously with my jewelry business. I had launched my blog at the time. And, once I contributed to several issues, I was named the online Marketing Director for the publication. So, every website, except the first one, I’m the one who actually created them from scratch. So that’s how I got my start in the publication and with that came all of the other roles that I also helped in assisted with.

And I’m on year three. So almost three years ago, when they decided to sell it was a knee-jerk reaction. It wasn’t even something that I saw in the cards for myself. Like definitely writing for it, not so much owning it. However, I knew that the media, the landscape of media was changing and that there was a lot that I could bring to the table, not just from my own perspective, but from the community that I had built around me of just very strong, powerful women who all have a story to tell.

I think we all have a story to tell, and I have always been a very community driven, very much a team player. And I felt that the platform couldn’t go away. It just needed to evolve. It needed to be more diverse and needed to be more inclusive and show just a range of different perspectives of life.

You know, I think every publication isn’t as own lane, it has its own demographic. I feel like. What you see out of coming from Bella, especially over the past two years is more of what the world actually looks like. So, you know, we’ve featured our first Asian American cover, which had never been done. And I’m very proud of the fact that we did it and we can, you know, and, and, and the reality is, you know, we, we know that.

Both of those words, diversity and inclusion have become a very trending topic. And part of like the trending conversation to have. The reality is that if you look at my, uh, team members, it is a reflection of the work that we do. It’s not just about talking the talk. It’s also about walking the walk. So, you know, the goal is to continue to give women and men resources to live their most Bella life, you know, that they feel connected to articles, resources.

Experts that they can actually go to if they’re in XYZ state or they can actually shop this article or this brand online, and it will help enhance their lives in a more meaningful and powerful way. So in a, just that’s the journey and, you know, the past year and a half has been really, really challenging as it has been for everyone.

But this particular industry has, has been very challenging, because we’re not an essential necessity for people. You know, a reading of a lifestyle publication is not necessary for you to live. However, what we have found that we’ve been able to engage with our readers in a way where we’re trying to, I don’t want to say like sugarcoat the realities that we’re living, but giving them options to engage and entertain and actually pursue it.

Healthier habits, you know, more meaningful experiences with their own families. You know, we’ve been encouraging people to take vacations in a different way, whether it’s to road trip or half staycations, we’ve been offering them recipes that they can do right at home because we’re, you know, where are we really going right now? Right. It’s become a go-to source, for those kinds of things that genuinely do affect the way that we live.

Keisha Blair: Absolutely. And that’s so important, especially during this time. And I know that I’ve been looking on and I felt like the publication has become so practical. And as you said, so diverse, because I look at the cover stories and the photos, and there are men and women who I can identify with.

I can see myself having lunch with them, you know, it just seems very accessible. So, I think you’ve made it very accessible. The look and feel is great. And I’ve admired that, you know, we both share immigrant roots, you know, you were from the Dominican Republic and my roots are in Jamaica. And I also admire that you’ve taken this journey and created this brand promise, which is amazing.

I wanted to ask you about transitioning, you mentioned your writing, your role as a writer and how you started at home. You transitioned to a CEO, which for a lot of us women, you know, we have these insecurities. And not only that but sometimes even with the financial aspects, with the finances, of managing a business and a publication and even acquiring it, you know, in terms of like, okay, so where do I get the funding from? I just wanted to hear a bit of how that went for you.

Vanessa Coppes: I mean, I’m not going to pretend that this has been easy. We do an incredible job at making it all look flawless. I mean, that’s obviously part of what marketing and branding is about, you put out the best of what you have to offer. However, I’ve always been very transparent about how this came to be. I am a solo entrepreneur and this has been self-funded from day one. Some days, especially over the last year and a half I’ve said, yeah, don’t worry, the extra stack of paper because that’s, that’s where we are. Or, you know, we have to first pay our electric bill here, but I attest our survival. If I may just say that word to my faith and the faith that my team has in everything that we do I have an incredible, incredible staff.

They are just incredibly passionate about what they do each in their own space. And then when all of that comes together, we have been able to create what I like to call like the ballet of fact, because this isn’t a solo project. This is not about me. It has never been about. I’ve always said, you know, even the cover stars, I literally just at this morning in a meeting that I was having with my team members here, don’t think I’m crazy because I have walked in here and said, so I had a dream last night and this is what we’re going to do.

So, I flow from that space. I allow my higher power to guide everything that I do. And I have no shame and claiming that because this has literally been my saving grace and, you know, financially things have been difficult. I have to say I have an incredibly supportive spouse that when I’ve had to dip into personal funds, um, you know, he has been there and has been able to, uh, to finance.

However, I’ve always made it a point to pay that back. The business and personal has to always stay separate. One of the things that I’m proudest of especially over the past year and a half, is that, I haven’t had to let anyone go and which again is just a testament to the importance of what we’re doing, because if people didn’t value it and they didn’t see it as something that they want it, we would have been out of business literally two weeks after the pandemic hit.

We always find a way. We always find a way to make our cashflow. I have to say that during the pandemic, what saved the company literally was the launch of our apparel line. I had been talking about making t-shirts and mugs for a long time and who knew that people wanted Bella t-shirts so much.

And that was literally for the first three months of the pandemic. The orders just started to come in and come in and come in. And I, I would literally. In tears at home because I couldn’t believe that, okay. We have money to pay our rent. Okay. We have money to pay my team. I have money to go to print. I have money, you know, and.

All due to apparel sales, that’s a blessing all on its own. And then, you know, we’ve been able to, especially in the beginning of this year, just create some really great brand partnerships that have been also very supportive of what we’re doing. And to your point though, you know, there will always be a lack of finances, especially in the beginning stages.

If I go back and tell you that when I launched my first business, I had got a part-time job to be able to fund what was my dream. Right. And again, no shame in that either. It’s called a job. You got a job. You do what you have to, but the reality is, if you believe in your calling, if you believe in your mission and what it is, that is your passion, you are going to always find a way, because for me personally, there is no other alternative.

This is it for me. This is what I have worked and dreamed about and prayed for and, you know, and wanted my entire life. And now that it’s happening. There is no alternative, but to make it work. And that attitude really does trickle through my entire team. So they work from that same space. Like we are not going down without a fight.

And, that’s ultimately, you know, what it is about because here’s the thing. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. And I know that, you know, as entrepreneurs, we hear that a lot, you know, that there are statistics that even say, you know, especially women own businesses between the first and year, second year in business, they just shut down and they failed because they give up and ultimately, you know, I’m not here to paint you a beautiful story of what entrepreneurship looks like, because it’s not, it is messy. It is gut wrenching. However, it is incredibly fulfilling because just like I said to someone yesterday, I said, I value the freedom that entrepreneurship gives me because I’m able to go home and be home with my children.

And I know that not a lot of people can say that. So you have to be willing to put in the work, so that you can reap the benefits and the benefits are that I get to be home when I have to be when I need to be. It’s taken a lot of work and it’s still a lot of work. I’m here in my office every day, chugging along. Don’t get confused by what you see on social media, where people are on boats and yachts. And I mean, awesome. That’s the lifestyle that they’ve chosen, but all of that comes at a price.

Keisha Blair: Absolutely. And it’s so true. And you know, I, I don’t have anywhere near your experience when it comes on to that aspect, but just from even publishing a book. And from that aspect, like, it’s a ton of work. So I can’t even imagine running a publication as well. And so Vanessa, I’m wondering for women listening in what advice you would have for them in terms of starting up and you mentioned the financial aspect of it, which is always so critical. And I feel like for many people, it’s like that barrier, you know, that we erect those barriers. Yes. Sometimes in our minds, but it really is in terms of getting the financial off the ground. And we’ve had so many entrepreneurs on this podcast, you know, successful businesses, but basically said, you know, “we didn’t even have a boot to strap”, in terms of bootstrapping a business. I was wondering advice you’d have for women. In terms of starting in terms of finances and especially in this climate where it’s so difficult, like it’s so tough.

Vanessa Coppes: So one thing I will say is that has worked out. I mean, it has worked out for me in the beginning. And even to this day, when we have had a challenge, you know, financial challenges right now is, I don’t know, I believe in part or if it’s for the sake of a barter, like the expectations sometimes are very shortlisted and there comes a time when, if you’re bartering and you don’t give in value, what is in turn given to you, then there is resentment. And then that creates animosity between that relationship and that it’s not something that, so what I like to do is exciting.

Expectations so that there is never left of course, within reason and within what you’re able to do. But that’s how I started. I remember setting up even when I had my jewelry business, I was setting up at a doctor’s office and they were allowing me to come in on a weekly and I was making $2,000 almost every week. It was a very high-end dermatology office. They would allow me to come in between nine o’clock and three, and I would just set up shop and all of these women, as they were waiting for the doctor, the doctor would allow me to sell in her space and in exchange, I would give her whatever piece of jewelry she wanted because I didn’t have the money. I was still funding as much money as I was still making. I was still funding my business, buying materials, building my website, doing all of these other things, paying the babysitter. Right. Because at the same time, those are all part of your expenses. I would tell her, I said, you know, for being here, a vendor cost would be $500. So it’s just four. But what I have given you and jewelry is actually $1500. I would just do that on a monthly basis. I would do that exchange and when things ended and  you know, we parted ways, there was no ill feelings or ill regard.

We both felt that we got what we needed and wanted out of that relationship. So if it’s to build a website, look for ways that you can collaborate with that other service providers and honestly, you know, buckle up and I’ve used credit cards. I borrowed money from family and friends and given it right back, I’ve used my own personal savings that I had, like my own little personal stash for, for that big rainy day.

I’ve seen that all be depleted, but thankfully, you organize yourself, because again, for me, there is no other alternative than what I’m doing. It had to make money. It had to be financially viable so that I could also pay myself back because that’s another thing that entrepreneurs don’t do.

They don’t pay themselves first and they don’t ever pay themselves back when they do. You know, dip into personal funds or whatever, and that’s a huge mistake. You should definitely get that. Get in line with that. Good organized. There’s a lot of, I can’t even say right now. Yes, there’s a lot of small business loans, but depending on the amount of time that you’ve been in business for yourself, you know, small business owners, especially women have a very hard time with finding funding, but you can really connect with somebody who’s in your industry. There’s a lot of angel investors. You can find them on LinkedIn. There’s a ton of groups on Facebook that also you can find support. You know, I know of people who have gotten grants. I know of people who have found someone that they’ve connected with, you know, over a period of time and say, this person believed in me so much that they wrote me a check, you know, and then you go into a contract that’s called an, an angel investor and no strings attached sometimes.

But sometimes the turnaround is, you know, some sort of interest and that’s fair. If I’m giving you X amount of money, then I’ll pay it back with, you know, X amount of interest. But yeah, you just have to get creative in the ways that you find your funding, uh, because it is possible. All I can tell you it is possible. I started my business with a very small inheritance that my father had left me and look at where we are now.

Keisha Blair: Yeah, that’s amazing. And so, you know, sometimes the risk is definitely, definitely worth it. And so when I say you touched on the topic of motherhood and postpartum depression earlier in the podcast. And I just wanted to ask you about that and how you’ve been building your business and also, being a mother and, with COVID-19. So many people are going through depression, loneliness, with things happening in the world.

There’s natural disasters. There’s racial tension. There’s our health with this pandemic. Any advice, any tips on how you cope? Like I remember, and I talked about this in my book, Holistic Wealth, after my husband died, I had given birth eight weeks, just eight weeks prior. And it was just unbelievable as a mother, what I had to cope with you know? And I talk about that a lot. So I know for mothers, it’s been hard, this pandemic, and I think 4 million women have left the workforce because they’re dealing with motherhood trying to handle everything was just difficult. So just wanted to hear your journey, how you overcame that and you know, like tips and advice, any words of wisdom?

Vanessa Coppes: Thank you for allowing me a moment, to speak about this because it’s very important. It’s actually a part of my own personal brand and journey. I talk about it (mental health) as much as often as I possibly can, because I’m here to show people that you can overcome it and you can manage it and you can, continue to live a happy life, regardless of, whatever mental health aspect you may be plowing through. I’ve struggled with depression from the age of 13. So it wasn’t anything new to me after I had post-partum depression. And, you know what, I always make a point to clarify, as you know, unfortunately for some women, they take it out on the children. For me, it was about my own self-preservation and thinking that I, if I was good enough to keep this baby alive, I would wake up, in hysteria checking to see if he was breathing. I would actually fall asleep with my son on my chest just to make sure that I was keeping him alive. I had this, like, I would have panic attacks. Keeping him alive. That was like my biggest thing. Oh my God, he’s going to die in my hands. And I, you know, and I’m not good enough to take care of this human.

So, that was corroding, everything that I could potentially even, or see as, you know, wins because. Although I had managed to create this false world in my head, right. That I was this horrible mother that I was going to not feed my child enough. And he was not going to grow up healthy, et cetera. I still manage to keep this persona until my husband would come home from work because I didn’t want him was smart enough to not make him think that I was incapable of take because I was ashamed and I was embarrassed. I mean, you know, I was like, oh my God, I’m a grown woman. Like, what am I doing? I got to keep it together.

And it was literally one day that I just walked into my local church. I lived in Staten Island at the time. And, um, I was walking in to get just information about baptizing him and why. And I, I looked to my left and I see moms carrying their babies in this room. And I’m like, what’s going on in there? And I started to just ask questions and they said, well, this is a support group for new moms and you can come and just talk to other moms.

And, um, we will. Your baby while you’re having, you know, adult conversation with these other women here. And I just broke down at the church office and I said, oh my God, this is exactly like, this is like an answered prayer. So I started to go to that group on a weekly basis. My son at the time was like 11 months old because another part of the hysteria was like, nobody could take better care of this kid than I could write this grandiose, you know, superwoman persona that we think that we can tackle all things and do all things.

And, and honestly, going through the meetings and then eventually opening up to my husband about it and talking to him about it, he would just he’s like, I knew something was wrong. I just didn’t know what exactly it was growing. Or I thought it was me cause he thought he was the one making me upset. And again, you know, it was all in my head.

Depression is something that lives in your own head, but you get your, the way you get yourself out of it is by talking about it. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I’m a talker that I need to talk things out. I need to sit out and hash out a problem because. That’s my own form of, um, decompressing and regulating myself mentally, so that I’m able to handle any given situation.

And, you know, coincidentally, you know, you talk about the pandemic and, what people have been coping with and all of this. I remember right at the beginning, we were doing podcasts about mental health and how women were feeling isolated. I remember comparing it specifically to that moment. And I said, now people will know how new mothers feel when they are isolated and home alone with a child, because this is exactly what we are all living and we’re living at collectively. So collectively, so now no one can say that we are crazy, right? Because it’s not in our heads. This is something that we can, we all feel in a different way, but it’s, you can, it’s the same it’s isolation is real and the feeling of isolated because we were living it.

So I remember just pointing that out and having so many people reach out to me privately and say, oh my God, you hit the nail on the head. And I said, because the thing is, there’s this shame that is carried, uh, you know, around mental health. Anxiety and depression and any of these other forms of, and the reality is that we all have some sort of it, period.

We all do. We just handle it in different ways. For me, what has worked has been meditation exercises. Yoga. There is not a morning that if I don’t do yoga my day doesn’t go south. And you know, my husband by now knows he’s like, well, you didn’t do your yoga this morning, so I understand what’s going on.

And it’s just something that I need to do. Physical movement is a part of my mental wellbeing, whether it’s going out for a walk, whether it’s riding on my Peloton, whatever that may look like for you. Um, and it’s scientifically proven, like I’m not making this up. Exercise is actual medicine for your body and your mind, the benefits of that, you maintain a healthy body weight, if you’re doing it regularly, but the mental benefits outweigh the physical benefits. So, it’s something that you should definitely try to incorporate. At least three to four times a week is just to move any which way I’ve pursued, you know, things that I’ve wanted to do.

I take ballet lessons once a month where I go and it’s kind of like re-engaging with my inner child. Just find different creative ways to do so. I’m going to start playing tennis in a few weeks as if I had time to do anything more. But the reality is that you have to find ways to continue to move, to continue to make yourself well, and whole, because if you are depleted and rundown, you can’t serve anyone. So, you know, when my kids come and I’m exhausted and tired, or my husband is demanding my attention and time, I fight. If I’m a hot mess, I have nothing to give them, so I have to take care of myself and I do it in ways that, um, you know, benefit me, not just physically, but also specifically more mentally and emotionally.

Keisha Blair: Yeah, absolutely. It’s just reminding of the whole concept of holistic wealth. I remember when, you know, they wanted me to write the book. They wanted it to be just a money book. And I said, no, I could never just write about that alone, but your finances do affect your psychological and emotional wellbeing.

If you’re not, if you’re worried about bills, then, you are going, that carries over into other aspects of your life 100%.

Keisha Blair: Yeah, exactly. And you also mentioned a spiritual aspect in the beginning of our podcast, too. Which is another important aspect of this too. And, you know, I I’ve gained a lot of inspiration and motivation just following along with you on Instagram, when you talk about that, because I not along and I’m like, that’s exactly it. I’m a very spiritual person too. So that’s the other aspect too, that I was just like, well, no, I know that I know what got me through those hard times. And it was all of that combined, you know, it was the spiritual and mental and that, the exercise that you mentioned, all of that, and, you know, for us and mothers too, that’s been an important aspect that saved a lot of us, as you mentioned, with the loneliness and the isolation and all of that.

So Vanessa there, in terms of the future for Bella magazine and like big plans that you may have anything on the horizon, right? You know, being building goals that you have.

Vanessa Coppes: Last year I wanted to launch, Bella Latina mag, which is the Spanish version of Bella magazine, and that’s officially back on the calendar and hopefully will happen in 2022. So right now the big focus is just to hopefully as the world continues to reopen and we are able to get back to life as safely as possible. We get the ship back on track so that I can focus on launching both Latina and the next year. So, that’s really the gist of it, you know?  I think that we are, we have all been pretty much hit with survival mode. But now I can see a little bit more of light at the end of the tunnel and pursue the plans that we were trying to pursue pre pandemic. So I’m very fortunate. Again, I always acknowledge and recognize, you know, the hard work behind me, which is, you know, my team and the incredible. Amount of people that I have just supporting what it is that we’re doing.

And I am always heartened when people come at us with, you know, incredible feedback and that they’ve heard, I was just sitting at my son’s karate class two weeks ago. And the woman next to me just asked me, well, what do you do? And I said, oh, you know, I, um, I don’t like to say that. I think that was me trying to not be boastful because I feel like sometimes that sounds come off the wrong way, especially when I’m talking to like a stay-at-home mom.

It feels kind of a little bit, but, um, I just said, I just read for a magazine Vela magazine and she was like, oh my God, I love that magazine. And then when she said it, well, I’m like, okay, I actually own it. So, uh, and then she’s like, oh my God, I follow you on Instagram. And I do this and it was. Really fabulous to just sit there and listen to the feedback of, you know, someone who does follow us and has engaged with us via social media.

So when you get to put names to faces and then again, feel connected to a brand that is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do, right. And making people feel connected to it as you’re you’re, you’re humanizing you. Yeah. Your company, uh, that felt really good. And, you know, we even made like lunch plans just to talk a little bit more about how we can work together.

A really cool sense of style. And I said to her, oh my God, we have to just, you know, connect and find a way to collaborate. Maybe it’s like a, like a street style, version of what it is that you do. But, um, that felt really good. And sometimes because I’m so invested in all of this, I forgot to look up and smell the smaller roses because that is what keeps us in business.

Uh, I, again, I’m super grateful and beyond proud of what we’ve created thus far. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s such a lovely story too, with that stay at home mom. So that’s great. And so when I said, can you tell our audience where to find you on social media? Because again, you, you, you are inspiring and your social media.

You are inspiring on a day-to-day basis. So I’d love for listeners to be able to follow along. Thank you. Well, you know, I will say I am very direct. I have no shame in putting thought provoking content out there because I feel like that is something. I personally am supposed to be doing, um, through Bella, obviously we’re a little bit more kosher and more, more Switzerland in the sense that, you know, we catered to, everyone, on my personal page, if you don’t mind me dropping the F bomb here and there, you can find me at Vanessa Coppes, and that’s the same across all social media and obviously through that’s the same handle also for as our website. So, and all of our social handles as well. But, you know, again, sometimes we need to hear some hard truths and I know that I particularly appreciate it when I do, when I have friends who call me out on my own BS and they’ll private message me.

And I say, I saw you shared this, but X, Y, Z. And I’m like, you know what lesson learned? And I’ll go back and I’ll address it. And I’ll. Ultimately, I think that, you know, if. Truly a life of service. That’s what that looks like. We’re here to enhance each other’s lives and make each other’s lives easier. We’re not here to, uh, give people a hard time.

And I genuinely don’t think that people set out with that intention. You know, I try to be as little ego-driven as possible. It trickles its ugly head up there sometimes. But uh, I started off my first starting point is, you know what, God used me. How can this be absurd? How can this enhance someone’s lives?

How can this make something better? But then, and you know, I let everybody make their own conclusions, based on that.  I appreciate the time, that you’ve given me to share a little bit more about what it is that I do. I, can’t not say, I mean, I’m having a ton of fun as hard as it’s been on some occasions.

This is truly, I can’t even call it work. Sometimes my husband calls it my hangout, Sure that pays bills, but okay. But I would hope that everyone can find that for themselves. It’s a professional, you know, a career, whether it’s a career or your own business that you feel so impassioned about that it literally is fun.

And it doesn’t feel like you have to make any effort to go to it every day, because that’s what this has been awesome.

Keisha Blair: And I think for so many people listening in that’s exactly what they want for themselves and their lives. And I love the line that you used about, God working through me and, you know, helping me to inspire others and to help lift up humanity.

Because that’s, that’s our goal here on the podcast too. So I think those are nice words to end on and, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I wanted this for some time too. And when I saw that picture, you posted on Instagram and you mentioned your niece, and she’s inspiring thoughts in you of, of a feature publication in terms of themes around inclusion and diversity. I thought this is amazing. And you know, I just have to reach out. So thank you.

Vanessa Coppes: It’s coming up in October. So it’s got to be amazing.

Keisha Blair: I’m looking, I’m looking out for that. Well, for sure, for sure help to promote that. And I appreciate that. It was amazing having you here.

Vanessa Coppes: Thank you. I really appreciate the time and likewise as well. Thank you.

Keisha Blair: Thank you for joining us this week on holistic wealth with Kesha glare. Make sure to visit our website, Kesha, where you can subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or via RSS.

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